TRANSCRIPT
Singers on the Front Lines with Darko C
Welcome to Singers on the Front Lines, an interview series with singers using the power of music to promote wellbeing, social justice and offer support and empowerment to vulnerable communities. I’m your host, Joanne Lauterjung.
In this episode I interview a creative maverick from Myanmar, Darko C. Darko’s the lead singer for the Indie Rock band, Side Effect, and is also the Director of Turning Tables - a global social enterprise working to empower marginalized youth by giving them constructive ways to express themselves through music and film - their hopes, fears and frustrations. Darko and his musical compatriots have lived through massive social changes over the past 15 years, as Myanmar (also known as Burma) has shifted from a military dictatorship to a hybrid model of government with many aspects now turned over to civilian control. Darko shares with us his thoughts on music’s role in culture shift, and the creativity needed to express yourself in a less-than-free environment.
D: Singers in Myanmar have been vulnerable to back in the days during the dictatorship, you know, we've been very vulnerable group. But, you know, I mean, not during my generation, but you know, the older generation used to be manipulated by the generals, or junta, you know like this military government. Because the military government knew, I mean, they know the power of music that can shape people’s mind, so they've been using the power of music, like, you know, you cannot say no to sing a song for them. So they force you by bribing you sometimes, or giving you a, I don't know, when they give you land for free, or like during that time one mobile phone was very expensive. They would bribe, they would give this free mobile phone to the musicians, and they would force them to sing a song, you know, to promote their leadership, and you know, I mean, for their propaganda. So it's been like that. But here, during the ’88 Revolution, there is some song, very important song.
SB: So, what are you seeing with the youth and how they see music, and how they express themselves through music? Is it just to get relief? Or are you seeing more meaningful expression with the music?
D: Yeah, especially in Hip Hop scene I saw a difference. I began to notice a change of, you know, change of theme of the music, they became more conscious, and there’s more, like, radical raps popping up. It was kind of impossible to hear 10 years ago. During that, time you know, hip hop became a thing again, but still, you know, the lyrics are more about you know, normal daily life and you know, we could never address the real issue and problem. But right now, current scene current Hip Hope scene has a new thing going on, you know. There's, you know, huge difference between like normal, like mainstream Hip Hop and independent Hip Hop scene that are, you know, singing or rapping about, you know, the more common issue, like a common youth issue that can be related to everyone. So, I saw a small change but, I mean, it is a change even though it's small. But some punks have room to, you know, push the limits on freedom of expression too, and some heavy metal band has more room, actually, and also punk rock, too, you know. Because, I mean, one, they are not the most popular music genre in Myanmar. So, you know, meaning it won't spread, it won’t go viral. So, you know, maybe the government or the authorities think they are less dangerous, you know, activities. So, I just only know pop or, you know, a very, very famous musician and singer start to address issues, that will be more noticeable, actually. And let's see, like whether, you know, their mindsets are shifted or not. And, or the other way around, you know, the new musicians or new faces of, you know, this time became, you know, mainstream musicians or popular musician, and then there will be a total change, right? Because, you know, nowadays their mindsets are shifted. And when they became like, you know, rap stars, or pop stars, hopefully they would maintain their courage to speak the truth. And that might take, like, 10 years or 15 years from now. But, it's possible. That would be a totally different kind of experience with the musicians. But normally I feel, like, you know, I feel like in general, musicians has been disregarded, you know, from giving a strong political statement. Artists are not making a lot of money, and they are not the richest people, you know.
SB: Well, there's no real there's no real industry, and no parent wants their child to be a professional musician or artist.
D: Exactly. With me, even though you are famous, I mean, there won't be very promising, like, you know, for the famous stars in the United States or, you know, in Europe, it's not the same. Because, I mean, you will never know what's gonna’ happen tomorrow and, you know, you won't be making any money, or stuff like that.
SB: So, my question, though, is about creativity because you don't really have an educational system that fosters a lot of creativity. And for expression, often expression is more meaningful because you found a creative way to say something. So how do you see that changing right now, with the youth that you're working with? Or artists like yourself? How are people tapping into creativity now, or how were people being creative within the structures, within the constraints? I think about the comedy group, Moustache Brothers, or you kinda’ had underground ways of being creative and expressive. So what change have you seen since you started, in terms of the creativity and the way people are expressing themselves?
D: That's a very good question. Creativity . . . I don't know what, exactly, happened to the original music scene in Myanmar. There was the 80s music wave, I think. So, it became this, like, cover songs tradition started back in the 80s, I guess. But before then, Myanmar used to have a kind of, like, a contemporary music at the time, you know. It was not very left behind, you know, during the 60s and 70s. But 80s is not very, you know, it all started in the late-80s, I think, you know. So when they became the very, like, mainstream and when they began to dominate the market, and original sounds some market was dropped, I think. So that all started. But to come back to your question, to talk about today's youth. I mean, there's a gap, just between, you know, my generation and their generation too, you know. I mean, I'm also learning how they see things, you know, as they are so . . . I mean, they have more creativity, I would say, because all this, like, online learning, and these applications, and all these like, you know, gadgets are very handy coming in, you know. Everybody can use GarageBand and, you know, they can just go to YouTube for the tutorial, and everything they learn. There are many more bedroom music-makers and singer songwriters, a lot. But they are dealing with different kinds of frustrations, you know. But when I was younger, and when I was at their age, when I was, you know, dying to be a musician. Just to be a musician is a thing, you know, because all the situation was telling you, ‘you cannot be a musician’. No, you just can't. Because you are poor, you know, you are not rich, and you're supposed to find a job that will save the family, and stuff like that. I mean, and then, you know, you don't have any family member that is a musician. That was very important back then. So, you know, you need to have connections.
SB: Some family way into the business.
D: Exactly, exactly. I mean, that industry, music industry, and all this kind of art scene is also very, like, very small, and but also very hard to be accepted.
SB: That sounds like almost any sector in Myanmar.
D: Yes.
SB: That family connections are really key.
D: Really important. And also, like me, that's how you started to gain your own fans, because you’re somebody's son or you’re somebody’s daughter, you know. You have all these people, “Oh, I love, you know, his mom” or “I love his dad.”
SB: “So I must love you!”
D: Exactly. I mean that's our standard. But I don't want to go political, you know, all the political leaders also have that kind of tie.
SB: Right.
D: So, I don't want to go there right now, and I want to focus on music first. But, you know, that the kids nowadays, they don't have that kind of, what do you call it? Mental block, or the fear that they would be accepted by this scene or not. I mean, some young people, they don't even consider, like, trying to get in the scene, or something like that. They just do it. They're just doing it, you know, because they're just making music in their bedrooms, and they just like, you know, release them on Facebook or, you know, YouTube, or just they're just doing it because they want to do it.
SB: So social media and the Internet sounds like it's been a huge change.
D: Yes, I can say that.
SB: I moved here in 2011. And, you know, A SIM card for a mobile was $2,000 US. And within two years, the big companies, telecom companies, came in and they were $1 50, you know, for a SIM card. So what change do you see, or what role do you think that has played in terms of their creativity or their desire to express themselves?
D: Yeah, creativity to me, for creativity one of the important things is inspiration, right? So, all this inspiration before we were less connected, but now we're more connected. And also, like, I mean, they're not suffering the same pain that I used to suffer. Because, you know, I mean, the music that I started to make was not very familiar with, like, normal Myanmar music fans. So. you know, I mean, we've been dissed, we've been talked down, we've been looked down. In the first place. I mean . . .
SB: When you say “we”, you mean, punk or a specific kind of music?
D: Yeah, yes. Side Effect or. like our, you know, the first wave of independent bands rose up in 2002, I think. And in 2000, from 2000 to, you know, like, 2005 there's, I don't know, the beginning of these independent bands. Before it was more like a band used to mean that a group of musicians or players that would back up every famous singer. But you can still hear this kind of definition when you go outside of Yangon, when you are in a small town, when they hear, you know, ‘Oh, I have a band” or something, whenever I talked to them. “Okay, who are the singers that you play for?” That was the question. That was always question. So, you know, like, just by I mean, this goes on. The band, you know, who wrote their own music, and the band that would only play their own kind of music, it was a new thing in 2000s, you know,
SB: Interesting, yeah. So, the function of music was different, really.
D: Exactly. Yeah. So yeah. So, we were not, like, I mean, we were not viewed as professionals. We were viewed like amateur musicians because, you know, I mean, nobody paid us, you know, nobody would hire us for weddings or stuff like that.
SB: But how were you exposed to this style of music, or this idea, if it was something that wasn't around you, how did you even get exposed to it or learn about it?
D: Yeah, there were some like, music stores, and cassette tape stores downtown, like, you know, just a couple of places. I mean, in Yangon I remember, like, just two or three major city stores or record stores, but we never use records since I was born, so that was not a thing. So, mostly cassette tapes and CDs. So, just three or four music shops for the international music, you know. There was no single shop for international music because, I mean, at the time there were only, like, very little people who speaks English, I think. I'm not very sure but, you know, what I mean is that international music was not popular. Not a lot of people listened to it, I mean, compared to right now. But now everyone can stream, go, you know, to YouTube for free. But during that time, people will be okay with like, local musicians, and which was a good thing, too, I think. But, you know, the problem started when we were exposed by the new music that was introduced by, I mean, some of those cassette tapes, and also our tradition was to, you know, approach to, dislike, you know, the hipsters. So that's how I tried to, you know, get a little bit ahead of my own time, so that I would start absorbing. Because actually what opened my eyes, you know, because when I was like, you know, third or fourth grade, it was wrong, like, you know, I mean, Guns N’ Roses, you know, Jon Bon Jovi and Metallica kind-of-time.
SB: So, the late 80s, early 90s?
D: Late 80s, but, you know, I think it was like 10 years later. So, I mean, it took some time . . .
SB Before it came into Myanmar . . .
D: . . . we were a little bit already left behind, but I grew up with that when I was a teenager. Then, you know, what changed me like every 90’s kid, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, and those bands, you know, changed my taste. They redefined the, you know, new phase of rock, and yet it was already, like, I don't know, 10 or 15 years late already, but it was, you know, new to us. It all started with, “Okay, these are new things are happening in the West. But still you may hear everywhere, you know, there are Metallica or Guns N’ Roses still playing in Yangon or Mandalay, right? It's not changing, like, some people are not changing, but it's cool that they are still, you know, following those bands. But you know, I don't know, compared to today's kid, I mean, they clearly have been better. But still they are having a problem because, you know, I don't know, like, I mean, the value, how they value music, and how I may value my own creativity, how they value their creativity, it's not the same. I don't know, I think they have different kinds of inspiration.
SB: Can you define what that is?
D: I can’t 100% define it, but I've been talking with some of the, you know, young musicians and, you know, their motivation is, you know, up and down very quickly. You know, what do you call it? Not this consistency, no . . .
SB: So, not like a disciplined approach, or that it's . . . like, their attention span maybe is a little bit shorter?
D: Yeah, kind of lightweight. Like, I don't know. Like, there's a you know, I mean, whether you are a musician or an artist like there's a phase where you are doing things, and at the same time you are finding about yourself. That’s a very important process that, you know, you're finding yourself through this process. But, I mean, for them mostly that is the inspiration comes from the visual or other, you know, like the form or the style mainly rather than who they truly are. Because maybe they have more creativity to do more things, or to do different things, you know, they have more skills. So, they may be more confused now to, where to go, which direction, you know. I mean, they can do it, you know, they can just like release it, you know, like, if you record your new song today, you can release it tomorrow.
SB: When you're doing workshops through Turning Tables, are you exposing them to more international music? Or do you find that young people are already listening? Like, what are some bands now, international bands, that are popular that people are listening to?
D: Oh, yeah, I did that, too, just to you know, introduce them, like, just different kinds of music and see, you know, like, if it would lead them to new, you know, I don't know, new way of listening to music or, like, finding new music. Because finding new music has always been, I think, to me, you know, it's very important because, I don't know, that's what I need. I'm not sure what they need. So, I always try to, like, show them very good music but, you know, I mean with the generation gap, of course, you know, sometimes, they just, I mean, most of the time . . . ah, they don't like it. We don't like it. But you know, our way is just, I mean, I know, like, we have likes and dislikes. But, I don't know, to be exposed to different things is also good. That's something that I can provide them during our workshops. So, for example, you know, last year we also, like we took, these participants to, you know, we rented out a movie theater and we showed, like, a documentary about a festival, and . . I forgot the name, you know, about the, it was it was about a very well-liked music festival in Europe, you know. It was created by a very famous band. I was hoping to see, because like, I think most of the kids I mean, they already learn a lot and they can do a lot of things, compared to my age then. They could do a lot, but they have serious lack of confidence.
SB: Oh, interesting.
D: You know, they don't believe in themselves because, you maybe know, the whole world, it looks like for them the whole world is telling them, “No, you're not good enough yet.” You know, you need to learn new things. But, because here, I think this academic or traditional way of looking at music is very, what you call it, powerful. And, you know, our culture is not very much enabling, you know. It was more like, “Oh, you don't know, yeah, you know, you still need to learn this and that, you know, you're not going good enough, or you don't know nothing You're still young.” Even like, you know, being young . . . as if being young is not a good thing or, you know, it's a stupid thing to do. But, of course, you know, we all came from a young age. We all learn like this, but if people are trying to talk down to the youth, “Oh, you don't know yet. Don't do it yet. You know, wait until you’re perfect,” or something. This perfectionism. But according to the Burmese standards, a very big thing. So, this is why I'm just, like, trying to, you know, make them go beyond this limitations of their own minds or, you know, the things that they've been told. So, I mean, if I just say things, they would not believe it. So, I show these crazy, like, bands that are not, you know, famous by doing whatever they want. So, I was hoping that might inspire them. Because, like, some people may want to make, like, I mean, why music are very angry music, but once some other people may want to do a very quiet and peaceful. But I mean, there are many way of doing things, but here is very limited, because maybe we are not very exposed to very diverse kind of music yet. But the reason why I'm saying, and the reason why I'm teaching, or showing to them is, I was hoping that they will realize, ”Ah, I can do something like that too, right now. I mean, tomorrow, I can do it.” Rather than, “Oh no,” I mean, “To be able to play the riff, I need to practice it for years and get a degree.”
SB: Study for years, and get a degree . . .
D: Yeah, exactly.
SB: It's so interesting how, like, if you think about Burmese society like big, big picture, and how, you know, the, they call it the long tail after your name, where you've got all these initials after your name.
D: Yeah [laughs].
SB: You know, that knowledge and wisdom are, like, considered the same thing and you can't be wise until you have, until you have all those initials. Yeah, after your name.
D: Yeah, yes.
SB: And it sounds like your work with youth, you're kind of trying to turn them on to some of their own lived wisdom, you know, there's, like, lived experience that you have, and the doors that that might open for them.
D: And not to mention the fact that, I mean, you can be who you are, you can be different. You know, it was kind of like, you know, the other way of saying like, you know, I don't know, to accept, like, differences, I mean, because here the conformity is a big game, you know. So, I mean, talking about rock, you know, if you say you are a rock musician, or if you love rock, so, you know, I mean, there's a list of the bands on music that you must like. That's it. If you say you are a metal guy, you have to like a certain kind of Myanmar metal. Police will say, “Yo, you know, you must love this kind of bands or you're not a metal head anymore.”
SB: Yeah.
D: So this kind of, what do you call it, standardizing or less . . .
SB: Conformity. It’s kind of conforming, but it is fascinating – how do you infuse creativity in a system that has set up, and that has such rigid protocols about age and gender and . . . how do you infuse creativity into that?
D: Yeah.
SB: But it sounds like youth are witnessing other ways of being because they're online. And maybe they're a little more open.
D: Yeah. Normally, I don't know, like, the majority of people are trying to, yeah . . . nice and easy-listening pop songs. Because I don't also blame them too, you know, but, I mean, before I did not understand them, like, why they just picked that very easy-listening thing. And, I don't know, like, one woman explained the way she listened to me was because she could not, I don't know, think or deeply or listen to music because the reason why she listened to music is to, what do you call it, kill time and also to be relaxed. So that, you know, like, some music that you need to pay attention, sometimes it makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable, but, you know, I don't know, that's the way I listen to music.
SB: You need, like, I think it's really a very interesting comment about right now in Myanmar, because in order to do what you're saying, you have to be comfortable with something that's really different. And the country is still opening up and people are still, there's still, and they're still active fighting going on in different parts of the country. People, they're still, you know, in a way, it's kind of a luxury. It's like a sign that you've, you're comfortable enough that you can really listen to something that's different, or that challenges you a little bit.
So, I really, I'm really impressed with the work that Turning Tables is doing because you're walking that line of personal expression, freedom of expression, but then that comes with a kind of responsibility, but then there's also the kind of numbing out, “I just want to feel good”, you know, idea. So, I don't know if you're conscious about doing that with Turning Tables, about finding that balance, but that's kind of my observation.
D: Of course, I'm aware of that. And that, you know, it's a little bit complex, right? I mean, to explain that to someone who doesn't feel that way. Actually, in this, you know, it's when people are super busy, you know, they don't have enough time to try to understand, like, what we are really doing, something like that, you know. So, I don't blame them. But you know, it's been a thing to me where, you know, I can't explain deeply for this. But I mean, the way I think is, yeah, by doing this kind of activity that would actually make us, I mean, how to live. We learn from, like, playing music together, or listen to music. For a musician, this is how we learn to live, this is how we live. So, you know, for those, like, music or, like, musician-like people, I mean, they are different kind of people, you know. So, they could only relate to the things that they learn from, through this, like, I don’t know, music or the way they listen to music, the way they play music, the way they approach music, they are different. But, you know, like, the way they see the world is through these experiences, too, so only then they would, like, I don’t know, they could actually understand what it's like to mean, like, social cohesion or whatever, you know, the beautiful word you mean. But, you know, they won't really accept the concept just by seeing them or reading them, right? I mean, we need, like, this predecessor personal experiences, but without telling them, “Hey guys, you know, we are going to do the social cohesion, you know, experience through music.” And even without telling them, “Just do this activity”, and let them, like, discuss about, like, disagree how to disagree, we know without, you know, feeling, being insulted. Because that's deeply, this kind of thing, deeply rooted in our culture, right? We cannot just like disagree with somebody, you know.
SB: Right.
D: So, because then all the problems started. But, I mean, we started, you know, by discussing about this, like, different tastes of music, different point of view and then, in the next day, we would go to the next level, or like, I don't know, “Hey, let's discuss about freedom of expression. Like, what do you think?” Because that would open the dialogue in the first place with the music that you love, right? I mean, you can relate to that concept, but there was, there were some, like, you know, story that, you know, people who've been to those workshops, after one or two years, they just like, give us messages that, you know, they’re still, like, remembering those moments and they really appreciate that. Now, you know, they found a way to disagree without fighting to each other. Which is, I mean, made me happy, I don't know, because it's been a thing, you know, to me and, also, I lost a lot of my friends just for disagreeing with them.
SB: You're ahead of your time, I think.
D: Oh, I I'm not sure if I like that phrase, too, because, I mean, at first, I thought, ‘Oh, you know, it sounds nice because, you know, I'm little bit ahead of others.’
SB: Not ahead, in terms of being ‘better than’, but ahead in terms of the readiness to sit with disagreement.
D: Yeah, okay.
SB: You know, you're coming out of six decades out of a particular, you know, social way of acting and interacting that's really fear-based. So ahead, just meaning, like, you've shed some of that fear a little bit earlier than maybe other people had.
[song clip: We’d Be Alright]
So, can you talk a little bit about how you sort of walk that line, knowing that this is an opening, this kind of funding is an opening to do this kind of work because you see the value of it. But where would you like to see it go? Like, how would you like to see this unfold and not stay stuck in the NGO, social cohesion, you know, framework that's so popular right now?
D: I think the main problem is the money, because, I mean, money is power. So, you know, whoever has money, they have power. So, this international community has money, and they have development, finance, stuff like that. So, of course, we are human beings, we want to fix things and we want to fix the problem in our own way. But, of course, there's always a negotiation and bargaining, you know, I mean, the reason why people are giving funding to us is, like, they want to do something with us, you know, so they are they also have their plan. You know, so, not like, I was a little bit naive to believe that, you know, actually, there are people who are looking for organizations that are doing the great work and they would chip in. I was naive, you know. So, I used to believe that, but, actually, in the real NGO world is not like that. So, there's always a bargain. There's always a you know, negotiation as always. So, what I learned right now is actually, still trying to find a sweet spot, you know, like sweet point the music making time, you know, sweet point. I'm trying to find where, you know, we can meet, you know, needs from both parties. You know, it's really hard but because you're right, you know, the way it’s structured is very bureaucratic, and the way they would like to measure these indicators and all these impacts are not the way the art is – it’s making, you know. I mean, the art and music or, you know, music or some other form of art contributing to the society, it's in a different form, different way. It's a little bit more complex, but it's not, I mean, it's not beyond comprehension, actually, but, of course. You know, we can’t just demand other people to see the way we see things, you know, so, which is why we are working. We are doing this work and, I mean, to learn from each other, right? Because I was hoping also they would learn from us, too, you know. The reason why we are doing this work is to learn from each other, how do we see things and because, I mean, whether they are funding us or not, I mean, music has been doing its job, you know. Music has been doing, here in a society, right? I mean, sometimes we are appreciated, you know, like, during the hard time, but most of the time we are neglected, we are ignored, you know. I mean, our songs has been downloaded for free and stuff like that, and people are having great experiences with their life, that's fine. But, I mean when we are, you know, trying to, you know, do collectively rather than just having fun and just, like, you know, releasing our inner anger or something like that. So, we hope, you know, all these people who want to do the good things would like to support us. Also, yeah, you're right. I mean, it should not be the same agreements with other development sectors, you know, because, you know, one, the process is different, that all these agreements should be different. You know, when the work is different, all agreements should be different. You know, it's as simple as that.
SB: In development, you can more easily, or let's say humanitarian aid, you can measure success. Like this, many people were fed, and this many people have shelter now. But when you're talking about the arts, it's much harder to quantify and measure. And often these NGO projects come, and often for a short amount of time – one year, two years, you know, span – and you're talking about trying to shift a whole mindset of a country to value to see what the arts can offer people, and it will take time, it will definitely take time.
D: Yeah. Also, you know, actually we can measure but, I mean, since we are doing the long-term work, because, for example, if you are planning trees that will take, like, longer to grow until you can sell. So, you have to wait, like, some of the trees you have to wait 10 years, 20 years, more than that. But there will be profit, there will be bigger profit, right? But when there is a profit, people can wait. But in our industry, you know, people cannot wait. They're so busy, they have to move on. So, they have, like, specific timeline for a project and they’re demanding to see the change. But, you know, after the project period, you know, right now we can actually start looking for this story for change, and story of change, and impacts of like that. But now there's no one to fund it. So, I mean, it's critical, it's very critical about, like, the way they see it, you know. Of course, we get the money, but still, you know, I don't know, to invest in this kind of like long-term impact. I mean, if they always demand longer impact, they always, like, told us to be more thoughtful and more meaningful. But, you know, actually what we are doing is very meaningful for the long run. Actually, we can find proof and stuff like that, you know, for the work that we did five years ago. Now the scene has changed.
SB: What do you see, as an example?
D: For example, like political songs was not a thing. I mean, nobody dared to sing it. But now it became, you know, it became a thing that, you know, people got more respect for saying, you know, what you should say. But before it was not possible. People even attacked you, or people even dis’ed you for being political. Because being political as a dirty thing and you are not a true artist. Because you are making the art dirty. You know, it was it was not very long ago, I can still remember what it was like six, five or six years ago. Now, you know, I mean, five years. of investment in this work, there's a true change because, believe it or not, you know, even though we are doing the project or not, now the kids are singing about it. Actually, we don't, you know, I don't know. We started it, we just like it, inspired them.
SB: You were like the catalyst, and then they've just taken it . . .
D: Taken it. I mean, maybe some of them, maybe they got inspired by the artists that we supported. So, they don't even, like, maybe they don't even know us. But they just, like, you know, picked it up.
SB: It kind of ripples out.
D: Yeah.
SB: Someone hears someone who then hears someone. So, you know, I think this, we’re in the middle of COVID – I almost wanted to say post COVID – but I think funding is going to be a big issue and priorities are going to be a big issue. But, if you could set aside the concern about money, like funding, what would be the next step? You've seen all these changes over five years. What would the next five years, what would you like to see happen over the next five years?
D: I’m thinking this COVID-19 is going to create new problems before we can solve the old problems. Because, you know, the situation is more difficult to survive. So, you know, the peacebuilding or, you know, this community building that we did, we worked on, are in danger right now, because people are gonna’ fight each other to survive, right? Or, I mean, hopefully, we could find new ways to live together rather than, you know, trying to eliminate others to survive, right? Hopefully we can find a way to work together to survive. That is less likely to happen. I'm sorry if I sound very pessimistic, but this is actually happening in the world, right? So, I mean, the work that we doing, actually because of COVID, you know, people will change the way they live, the way they see things. I mean, maybe they may care less about the politics or they may care less about peacebuilding because survival is more important right now, you know. They would try to get a job, you know, no matter how, how the work, or the job is not in line with their passion. They might grab the job and they might not happy. When people are not happy, you know, I mean, they're not going to be nice on each other. And, you know, like, you know, like, doing it for the Black Lives Matter, too, you know, like, the people who are super stressed with, you know, COVID also. You know, it is a channel, you know. So, I'm not saying it was a bad thing, you know, because it also, it can probably make other, you know, movements successful or it can make them worse. It can lead to more violence. So, I mean, our role is more crucial than ever. I mean, not only by the, you know, non-profit world, development world, aid world. I'm speaking about, like, you know, I mean living in a society and, you know, like, taking part of it, taking serious part of it, I mean, we can actually have the cities come back to life to, you know, rebuild the customer relationship. And with the, you know, with the bars or venues and everything, every brand or something. I'm not saying because we want money by working this step, but actually I mean it. You know, music, they've been forgotten about music. You know, we can the music and contribute in human life, to human life and also to the businesses and also to connect people, just to connect people. So, I, yeah, really believe that our role is more crucial than ever, but people don't see it that way. But actually, I can totally understand them because they will say, “Oh, we need to focus on the business first, or the infrastructure first.” But we always come next, or the last, right? We've been considered, oh, we are the less important group. But I'm not saying we’re the most important group, but actually, everyone is equally important. We should understand that right now. Or there will be more pandemic, or, I don't know, more disaster coming until we realize that nobody's more important.
SB: And we need each other.
D: Yes, exactly. We should be open for the new patterns, or, I don't know, we should not be afraid of looking for a new way of doing things and, you know, a new way of living. And I think a lot of people are scared not being able to get back to the state like before. I’m very, you know, hopeful for finding new ways.
SB: Yeah. I think people are hungry for stories right now, and artists and musicians are our storytellers. They take this experience of life, and spin it and weave it into a story that then touches people hearts, and resonates with people, right? And I think this period of time, everything that’s happening in the world, we’re hungry for a new story. Because the old story is not a good story, and we’re seeing in how many ways it’s not a good story. So you’re also a songwriter, so I wanna’ ask you now more about, sort of, storytelling and the songs that you choose to sing with Side Effect, separate from Turning Tables. What’s that process like for you? And do you, is it intentional to write a song that has a message, and that has meaning to it?
D: I never force myself to be intentional because, I mean, when I’m creating art, when I’m writing a song or when I’m doing a collage piece or something like that, because I, like, balance the conscious mind and subconscious mind. I mean, I know it’s hard to say it’s well-balanced, of course, but because I like to use the power of subconscious mind, with very little consciousness to control. Because consciousness is more about control, because when it comes to creativity control is also good, but it’s also a bad thing. It’s good and bad at the same time. So, meaning, ah, because, for example, like, you know, when I was writing music about Mekthila, or all these political songs – not all of my songs are political, you know, very little – but, you know, only when it became personal, I started writing. Because I don’t try too hard to represent everyone or a group. Because I always started with my own personal feelings. Because it’s real. Only when it hits you, you are not writing a song that people will give you applause, or, you know, thumbs up, just because, you know, you are not trying to impress the world. For me. So, you know, I would write whatever I want to write, so I don’t try to be a responsible songwriter, normally. I’d rather be just an artist, but who cannot stop saying what I want. You know? So, whenever I want to cross the culture line, or all these, like, uh, I don’t know, I don’t wanna’ stop just because it would be controversial, or something like that. So, I would wait for authenticity coming inside of myself, and I would capture it, and I would start writing about it. Of course, you know, when you started writing, when you have a good idea, of course, at that time you might not be able to finish it. But then, tomorrow you start on that song. That’s the rest of the process. But to answer your question straight, I mean, just only when it became personal I started writing about this issue, and stuff like that. This is how all the artists work, you know. It’s only real when it became personal because everything is personal to us. This is all why all these different types of people cannot understand, “Why they’re so, like, emotional on this matter or this cause?” You know? “This is not your cause, other people’ suffering. Like, why are you so angry about it?” Because we are angry and everything is personal, you know.
SB: Well, you’re allowing yourself to be touched by someone else’s experience.
D: Exactly.
SB: And you’re allowing your own personal experience to . . . you know, some of the best stories are really personal stories, because then we don’t feel so alone. It’s like, “Oh, I have felt that. Someone else understands me.” And the power of a songwriter to really tap into that is really, really valuable, and really needed right now.
D: Yeah, I think in that way, they are the unseen power of music rather than, like, you know, just a digital sound wave or this, you know, technical things that we recorded. Which is why different kinds of music have different kinds of power. Sometimes the music is not academic, very simple, but it is so powerful, you know. So, these ones, this music will capture or recorded all these human identity, I think, somehow is also captured through this microphone.
SB: Can you tell the story about the musician in the field in Northern Rakhine? How you found him, and how his music made you feel, and why you decided to record him and post it?
D: Yeah, sure. It was in 2016, I think. Yeah, I think. It was around 2016 when we were in Northern Rakhine, in Budidaung Township. The majority of people were Rohingya Muslims, and there were Rakhine Buddhists, and other, like, Mro, and Khami, like very smaller minorities there. Yeah, we were looking for, like, a musician, local musicians, and we found one local rock star who agreed, who liked our project, he was a Rakhine Buddhist rock star. And we made music with him, and also I was looking for other musicians. So we found a Muslim mandolin player, and then we were just, like, very excited to record their music I’d never heard any, like, Rohingya music before. So I was like, OK. I’d never listened to his playing before, and I just trusted one of our participant’s recommendation. And then it was just, like, the first time that I saw him, too, and we talked a little bit about their music. Because I told him that, you know, I wanted to record his music. So, he was like, “Fine.” So he took us to a rice field, right across from his house. So I recorded with Zoom recorder, right in the field, you know, and with two cameramen. It was a live recording, and at the same time, I also heard for the first time the song. So, the music is so powerful. At that time, frankly speaking, I was worried, too. I was worried everybody could not, I thought everybody would send us, like, hate messages . . .
SB: So it was dangerous.
D: Very dangerous back then, you know. It was a very hot topic , you know, we can’t even talk about what is happening. We could not even openly talk about what was happening in Rakhine, and stuff like that. But at that time, there was a lot of hate speech on Facebook. During that time, you know, we posted that video. And then, actually, the power of music come from, like, it speaks for itself. There were many positive comments and, you know, like, thousands of likes and very positive response. It gave me relief because, you know, I thought, I mean, we would get in trouble for posting it. But everybody got in trouble for, like, I don’t know, standing up for Rohingya or, you know, like, speaking up. But we didn’t say anything, and that’s when I realized it’s the right way, rather than, you know, advocating for their rights. I mean, it’s also a good thing, but there’s another way to make people feel. Because the people who are rejected their rights whenever they heard these human rights activist’s statements, they did not reject this Rohingya musician’s existence. You know, it somehow bypassed their, er . . .
SB: He becomes human.
D: Yeah, he becomes human. But, you know, we don’t have to make, I don’t know, a documentary about, “Oh, he is also a human being.” But, just, like, play a song, let them know.
[song clip: Friend]
SB: Is there anything else you want to say about the role of music in Myanmar right now, or anything you want people to know?
D: Yeah, like, I mean, it might sound like my religion, or a religion kind of thing, because the way I believe in the power of music is not just, like, a form or physical experience. But also a spiritual experience, too, because, you know, I really, really believe that we are just vibration. Vibrating with different frequencies in this universe. Everything you see and hear, these are the vibrations of all these frequencies. So, music is a set of different frequencies, and you are playing different frequencies. You know, you can play with finding out what the combination, what kind of different combinations of different frequencies will sound, and we’ve been doing that for centuries. It’s a human thing, we’re not just wasting our time. You know, I mean, just because it doesn’t create a lot of money or a lot of profit doesn’t mean it’s not a valuable thing. It’s a universal language. I mean, I think, you know, other creatures in the universe can probably relate to our songs and music. So, you know, I try to see music from a different angle, rather than a tool for a marketing campaign. Or rather than a tool to promote their activity, or agenda, or mandate. We can help them achieve their goals, you know what I mean. I mean, we can help achieve their goal and we, you know, we are not useless people in the society. Now, the time is changing – I know people began to think, “Oh, music is just an entertainment, just to kill time” and stuff like that. But it’s not true. It can actually enlighten us. It can, you know, like, let us see things beyond this capitalist culture, and all these illusions. It can remind us that we’re human beings, even though, like, for example, there’s no more company, or something like that, we can play music, we can live, we can breathe. I mean, OK.
SB: A passionate plea for recognizing the full power and potential of music. Beautiful.
D: Thank you.
SB: Thanks, Darko.
Big thanks to Darko for joining us this week on Singers on the Front Lines. You can learn more about his band on YouTube, search for Side Effect (shouts from Myanmar), or follow them on FaceBook, Twitter and Instagram. You can learn more about Darko’s amazing work at turningtables.org. You subscribe to this show on Podbean, iTunes or via RSS so you’ll never miss a beat.
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